tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3745950328336574574.post5789474961341832886..comments2024-03-22T03:22:03.672-04:00Comments on Clash of Spear on Shield: A-Z: RolandChris C.http://www.blogger.com/profile/08655640273250716377noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3745950328336574574.post-21926820348269935482011-04-21T17:35:02.365-04:002011-04-21T17:35:02.365-04:00The saga of Roland makes me think of the Dark Towe...The saga of Roland makes me think of the Dark Tower, a series that started so well, and ended so very poorly.DocStouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13239520630901083975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3745950328336574574.post-2025623460853910342011-04-21T13:06:40.940-04:002011-04-21T13:06:40.940-04:00I cannot say with any certainty whether this is wh...I cannot say with any certainty whether this is where Tolkien took the word, but it appears to be a real possibility. As Tolkien was a philologist and medieval scholar, I think it would be surprising if he hadn't seen the word before. This said, I cannot absolutely affirm that to be true. But I got thoroughly excited about your question (lunchbreak research project!!!) and here's what I discovered: <br /><br />The old french word for an ivory horn is indeed a figurative use of the same old french word that was the term for elephant itself (both were "olifant," according to the TLF, which is basically the French equivalent of the OED). <br /><br />The OED gives the English word "oliphant" as an archaic term for "elephant" as well as for "ivory" and "ivory used to make a horn," and says the term is derived from "Anglo-Norman olifan, olifant, oliphant, ollifaunt, holifaunt and Old French olifan, olifant, oliphant, etc., ivory, musical horn made of ivory (early 12th cent. in the Chanson de Roland), elephant (late 12th cent.; French oliphant, olifant (hist.) the ivory horn in the Chanson de Roland [...]), apparently representing a post-classical Latin variant (compare post-classical Latin olefans elephant [...] of classical Latin elephant-, elephantus (also elephans, elephas) elephant n. "<br /><br />So even if Tolkien didn't consciously take the word from the Song of Roland, I'd have to say he at least got it indirectly from there, as the whole English language took it from the old French and the Song of Roland.Chris C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08655640273250716377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3745950328336574574.post-8539002530874526952011-04-21T09:46:24.047-04:002011-04-21T09:46:24.047-04:00Certainly one of the oldest epics, but I did not k...Certainly one of the oldest epics, but I did not know it was the oldest piece of French literature that exists until I did some checking on it this AM.<br /><br />Is this where Tolkien got the word "Oliphant" from?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3745950328336574574.post-68973350372732300792011-04-21T06:43:24.133-04:002011-04-21T06:43:24.133-04:00Beautiful and sad.Beautiful and sad.The Angry Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01227314379603418332noreply@blogger.com